Milwr Tunnel System - OG - Olwyn Goch Shaft

Walk-throughs, comments, experiences, pictures please!

I know that access is controlled by GCC for this, and due to United Utilities undertaking they have asked cavers to stay out, but does anybody (ie any members of GCC) know if it is simply locked down indefinatley or are things moving forward. Its a fantastic place and I am looking forward to getting back if we can

What is the point of the GCC if they simply lock down a location. Remember caving clubs DONT control access, the landowner does and clubs or organisations have no authority what so ever. If the GCC dont play ball, bypass them, they will soon learn to play with others. The GCC are an example of empire builders like Moles and the Forest of Dean clubs who assume too much.

Andy M wrote:

I know that access is controlled by GCC for this, and due to United Utilities undertaking they have asked cavers to stay out, but does anybody (ie any members of GCC) know if it is simply locked down indefinatley or are things moving forward. Its a fantastic place and I am looking forward to getting back if we can

It's been off-limits for a very long time now and I would'nt wait for an honest answer from them if I were you (I have tried, I just get silence). It's not for me to answer questions on their behalf, but don't go charging your caplamp just yet. The situation doesn't look good.

Quite simply the reason that the GCC is not forthcoming with a response about when we will get access to the OG shaft is because quite simply we do not know!

Communications are ongoing but currently there is no news yet about when cavers will be allowed back in. Until then just keep your fingers crossed that access will again be allowed.

Until then illegal trips down, that break off the locks or try bending the lid open so as to gain access are doing nothing to improve the situation. If you know who is doing this can you make sure that they stop otherwise we may lose access completely.

Cheers
Karl

Batmancaver wrote:

Communications are ongoing but currently there is no news yet about when cavers will be allowed back in. Until then just keep your fingers crossed that access will again be allowed.

Thanks Karl, thats all I wanted to know, I had heard that due to HSE matters the negotiations could take a while. As for people trying to get in as far as I am aware all UCET guys have stayed away, as we do not want to cause any further problems or delays.

Batmancaver wrote:

Quite simply the reason that the GCC is not forthcoming with a response about when we will get access to the OG shaft is because quite simply we do not know!

Communications are ongoing but currently there is no news yet about when cavers will be allowed back in. Until then just keep your fingers crossed that access will again be allowed.

Until then illegal trips down, that break off the locks or try bending the lid open so as to gain access are doing nothing to improve the situation. If you know who is doing this can you make sure that they stop otherwise we may lose access completely.

Cheers
Karl

have you had break in attempts at OG or are you refering to other locations?

Since the GCC were asked not to go down Olwyn Goch by the utilities company, the lock has been removed twice, if I have heard correctly.

The GCC has no idea who is responsible for doing that, and my comments are in no way whatsoever to be taken as an accusation against UCET or anyone else registered on this forum. This forum was simply a place to voice a concern.

Hopefully we will get access returned to us in due time, we all just have to be patient.

Karl

UCET don't want to jeopardise the access situation to the OG/Milwr tunnel and would not tamper with any lock on the shaft. It's a trip we particularly enjoy as many of our members live local and are interested in the mine/caves under the mountain. I'm interested in the Milwr tunnel because I'm a Halkyn resident and the tunnel runs near my house. I'm confident that no UCET member would undermine this as it would be unfair to our newer members who can only hope to go down there when/if access is sorted out again. As a bona-fide club we have always willingly provided the required details in order to go down there legitimately.

Who on earth is this "DarkPlaces" wassock who stated the following (see his post above)..........

"What is the point of the GCC if they simply lock down a location. Remember caving clubs DONT control access, the landowner does and clubs or organisations have no authority whatsoever. If the GCC dont play ball, bypass them, they will soon learn to play with others. The GCC are an example of empire builders like Moles and the Forest of Dean clubs who assume too much".

A) He spouts off without knowing the facts.
B) He advocates 'bypassing' (presumably breaking the entrance lid) the one group who have done so much in maintaining access all these years.

It is the owner (NOT GCC) who have 'locked down' access. All visitors have simply been asked not to go underground until a decision is made.

If the owners are now considering whether or not to allow caver access, such moronic outpourings will almost certainly result no access at all. Lets face it, if you owned the land, would you grant access to an irresponsible and selfish person such as DarkPlaces? I know I wouldn't.

It should be remembered that in the days before ANY access agreement for the Milwr Tunnel, Cavers were exploring unofficially. The moment the owners discovered what was going on they immediately sealed off the entrance and banned all further visits. It is known that they would have happily sealed the entrance with concrete if visits were continuing. It was at this point that GCC took the only possible route: Start talks with the owners.

DarkPlaces is one of a breed of selfish cavers, and thank god they are small in number, who believe the World owes them a living, and that all holes in the ground should be unrestricted for then to explore. Get a life! Smell the sodding coffee! Join the real World!

On the other hand, he may have posted simply to wind people up............ in which case he's succeeded.

I Burrows

Now now! I Burrows is GCC getting all wound up. you refer to darkplaces as a irresponsible and selfish yet he is only expressing his dismay at the ongoing dissapointing empire building that GCC have established over the last 20 something years. You say that GCC have negociated with land owners for permission for access to explore mines on there land? yes and well done to them fcuking crying shame they wont share with the 80 odd percent of explorers who arnt members of any clubs (check threads and posts on this site), and i do believe "correct me if im wrong" that as part of the access agreement with Welsh Water at the time was that GCC had to be seen to be taking others from clubs or groups with interest down Olwyn Goch with stipulation that explorers had BCA insurance.

Your reference to Darkplaces as being small in number how very wrong you are the forum has nearly a thousand registered members nearly 12000 historical pictures nearly 36000 posts and is very popular with the exploring community. hmm dont see your website bud

oh and in answer to letter A above in your post. we know all the facts.

Regards Marty

I remember trying to join Grovenor early last year! I spent 3 months constantly emailing club officials asking how to join blah blah..............and do you know what?????????

Not one reply!!!!!!!!

SimplyExploring wrote:

I remember trying to join Grovenor early last year! I spent 3 months constantly emailing club officials asking how to join blah blah..............and do you know what?????????

Not one reply!!!!!!!!

I did exactly the same before finding the 3 main exploring sites m-e, dp, and aditnow and it took a year after joining m-e to actually get a visit to The Milwr Tunnel after Miles asking for months and months, bad show gcc

Move over granddad Burrows! Its your view thats in a minority. No club tells me to keep out but I'll follow 'reasonable' access rules which the Grovenor dont have a clue about implementing. Is the closure more likely due to the fact they are all too old and knackered and have had so many complaints over the years the owners are fedup with them, as is the majority of the mine exploring community.

My points about bypassing are about looking after these places FOR THE GOOD OF ALL and not just you and your cronies, which seams to be the mindset of such people as the Grovenor and Moles.

You want to come to Wiltshire and visit our holes, you will find access easy and reasonable, research is done and shared to EVERYONE. people will offer trips and guides and help. Sadly that mentality doesn't exist everywhere.

So move over Grandad, the next generation (yeah ok were all approaching middle aged) are coming and we have ideas to surpass your closed to others mentality.

I Burrows wrote:

Who on earth is this "DarkPlaces" wassock who stated the following (see his post above)..........

...

A) He spouts off without knowing the facts.

Interesting.

You have no idea who Darkplaces is, yet confidently state that he doesn't know the facts...

I Burrows wrote:

If the owners are now considering whether or not to allow caver access, such moronic outpourings will almost certainly result no access at all. Lets face it, if you owned the land, would you grant access to an irresponsible and selfish person such as DarkPlaces? I know I wouldn't.

Stranger things have happened

darkplaces wrote:

yeah ok were all approaching middle aged...

Darkplaces, you are younger than me and I refuse to accept I am approaching middle age

As was once said in the infamous Monty Python sketch "I am not Old...!"

I Burrows wrote:

B) He advocates 'bypassing' (presumably breaking the entrance lid) the one group who have done so much in maintaining access all these years.

...

DarkPlaces is one of a breed of selfish cavers, and thank god they are small in number, who believe the World owes them a living, and that all holes in the ground should be unrestricted for then to explore. Get a life! Smell the sodding coffee! Join the real World!

Any chance you could shed any light on the video posted on YouTube which shows a UCET member gaining access to Rhiwbach by 'bypassing' the entrance?

No only is that a mine on Forrestry Commission land, but it is gated with a stringent access agreement in place. It is also one of few mines which is passed for school and outdoor centre use.

As happens, the key is pretty easily available.

But on YouTube is a video which is *** "UCET Cavers" in which you clearly show people 'bypassing' both entrances. Are you really that ******* thick?

I have no idea how you lot have the face to have a go at someone like Darkplaces, who at least has the intelligence to keep the sensitive bits on his website out of the public eye, far from landowners' view.

Yet UCET go 'bypassing' entrances and broadcast it on YouTube - that sort of behaviour is an absolute bloody disgrace to the mine exploring and caving communities, end of.

hi vanoord.i think you will find that no one in UCET is having a go at DARKPLACES .

Leahy Mike wrote:

hi vanoord.i think you will find that no one in UCET is having a go at DARKPLACES .

This Burrows fella isn't one of yours then?

Mind you, the hat seems to fit...

he's DEFO not one of are members so GIVE US A BRAKE . all we wont to do is cave and enjoy it .so some of our members post videos on u tube there just having a laugh . burrows would'nt fit into one of our hats

oops sorry old boy forgot to mention where abouts in HALKYN are you

Watch out Vanoord the Pen Y Pylle boys are coming to get you

ha martymart.i believe you were in the glan the other night when some of us were there on the schoolys night . you should have comr over for the crac

Leahy Mike wrote:

ha martymart.i believe you were in the glan the other night when some of us were there on the schoolys night . you should have comr over for the crac

when i walked in and saw John i thought the look off him was one to keep away so went to the bar to talk with wez. ahh well maybe next time

johns a pussy cat really